Authors: Meghan Etsey, Laura Uricoechea, Vashti Price, Dr. Joanna Georgakas – on behalf of AMWA Gender Equity Task Force
“Our Voices, Our Future” is a podcast by the Gender Equity Task Force of the American Medical Women’s Association that explores the challenges, stories, and successes of those working to advance gender equity in medicine. Through candid conversations with changemakers, advocates, and leaders, each episode dives into issues like pay gaps, leadership disparities, and inclusive workplace culture. Tune in to be inspired, informed, and empowered to take action. Full episode listening links are available below the transcription.
Meghan: Welcome to Our Voices Our Future, the podcast where we amplify the voices driving change and equity within medicine and beyond. Brought to you by the Gender Equity Task Force, a committee of the American Medical Women’s Association. We’re here to challenge norms, break barriers, and ignite conversations that matter.
Meghan: I’m Meghan Etsey here with my co-host, Laura, and in each episode, we’ll bring you candid discussions with leaders, change makers, and advocates, working to create a more inclusive and just world. No more silence, no more waiting. It’s time to get Our Voices, Our Future. Today, we are welcoming Dr. Joanna Georgakas. Joanna is a current chief resident in psychiatry at Brown and is pursuing a geriatric psychiatry fellowship this year at Mass General Brigham in Boston. Joanna has been a member of the Gender Equity Task Force since her first year of medical school. She helped found her medical school’s AMWA chapter and has continued to serve AMWA as a resident chair for the Gender Equity Task Force during her time in residency. During her time in medical school, she created a podcast uplifting the voices of women in medicine, which is what she’s here to talk about with us today. Welcome Joanna. For a little background, the episodes that have been posted under season one on Our Voices, Our Future are Joanna’s, and she’s helped us transition this podcast, where we’ll be carrying on her path and continuing to share stories and wise words from many.
Dr.Georgakas: I am so excited to be here, and I’m really proud of both of you for carrying on this legacy.
Meghan: Thank you.
Laura: Hello everyone, Laura Uricoechea, I am excited to be here with Meghan and our first official podcast. So Joanna, can you take us back to the beginning? What first sparked your passion for sharing stories about women in medicine? And was there a particular moment or experience that made you realize this work was needed?
Dr.Georgakas: Yeah, so for this project in particular, I was part of the leaky pipeline task force, like this subset of the Gender Equity Task Force. It was a big project that we were working on. Basically, what that meant was we were looking at reasons why women were leaving medicine at different levels, so medical student level, resident level, early career, physician level, as well as more senior career levels. At that time, I was with a group of peers and medical students, and we were talking more about what it meant to be a medical student at that time. For context, I think that year was the first year that just over half of my matriculating medical school class was female. Maybe more of these tropes of, well, I guess you can be a woman in medicine, but you can’t be a woman in this field of medicine or that field of medicine, or be a woman in medicine and do this. It was like a lot of negative messaging about what we can and can’t do. Then, kind of fast forward a little bit, going to my very first AMWA conference, there were so many incredible women physicians, and I got to speak to so many of them who were all in very different career paths, very different specialties. Seeing them all and getting to speak with them really made me see like, no, this is all some message that I’m getting from somewhere that doesn’t really exist. Truly, I can be anything I want to be in medicine. It should just be based on my interest and that kind of stuck with me, that experience, and I wanted to find a way to get that experience of being at an AMWA conference out to my peers or other medical students who couldn’t go to the AMWA conference or didn’t have access to really awesome female mentors who were leaders in the fields but I didn’t really know how to do that. So, in medical school, it was really serendipitous. My mentor that I was paired with during my preclinical years, where we went out and kind of had some clinical experiences early on, was an emergency medicine physician, Dr. McAteer. I did a couple of overnight shifts with her, and during some of the down periods, I kind of shared this feeling I had with her and my idea, and my passion. She just happened to be a pretty prominent podcaster herself. She’s said that this sounds like a great podcast– have you ever thought of putting it into a podcast? So that was kind of where, like, an overnight shift in the emergency department, in Rhode Island, is kind of where this whole project began, and it kind of led from there. Then during my third year of medical school, I was able to meet a bunch of women and interview them and get their stories out there and heard by, and hopefully inspire other folks.
Laura: Wow, that’s such an awesome story, and I think that’s like the definition of being in the right place at the right time to get all this started.
Dr.Georgakas: I heard a really great quote where it’s like you have to work really hard, but hard work has to meet luck to be successful. That was definitely very lucky, mentorship, and placement.
Laura: Totally agree.
Dr.Georgakas: I feel like for your other question, when did I think it was needed? I have an interesting background. So in undergrad I was actually a neuroscience major, but I also, up at Middlebury, was a gender, sexuality, and feminist studies major. So, part of my thesis project, way back when I graduated quite some time ago at this point, was actually on feminist science studies and looking at gender equity and looking at inclusion of women in clinical trials, and like the lens of science and also looking at representation and how many women, not only were in medicine, but all STEM fields and looking at the leaky like pipeline in that context. So it was something I kind of came into medical school kind of being aware of, which I think is why I joined AMWA so early and was quick to join the leaky pipeline group and the gender equity task force as well.
Meghan: We’re so excited to continue these talks. I know that I’ve always said to people that you have to talk about your interests because if nobody knows what you’re thinking, nobody can help mentor you in them. So it’s definitely super cool that you express that, and that you were able to find that luck that you needed to kind of get things moving. When you started the podcast series, what was your initial vision for it? Did it evolve in ways you expected, or were there any paths that kind of led you down a different way?
Dr.Georgakas: Yeah, so I think just what you said, like I think initially I was very nervous, like, who’s gonna listen? Who wants to listen to me? Like, how can I do this? Is this too big for me? But with really good mentorship and support, it really became possible. So, for any of the people listening in, if there is anything that you’re interested in or a change that you want to see in the world? I’d say be that change. You can definitely be a part of it, as small as our podcast series here, or anything on a larger scale, like advocacy work. If you can think of it, I imagine there are mentors who are really excited and want to work with you. For the podcast series, I was just happy if it reached a couple of people. I really wanted to, again, spread the message and make people feel the same way that I felt at the AMWA conference, where I was getting to speak with these incredible women in medicine and be really inspired by them. I really wanted to highlight that there’s so much work that women are doing in medicine and that, you know, we aren’t just doctors. In fact, people are doing so many other cool things. Whether it be stuff outside of medicine, recreationally or at a high skill level, or something they’re doing advocacy-wise or a passion project, they may have. I think what kind of inspired me or surprised me and really kept me going was the women I interviewed themselves. I feel like after every single podcast interview, I left with really feeling inspired and really feeling motivated to keep it going. They really kind of left this impression on me that if there is something that you’re interested in and you’re feeling that it fills your cup. It can take some more time, which is a little paradoxical, but it’s really worth it. I think now in the, you know, people are working really hard, there’s a lot of mention of burnout. It gets really crucial that we do have projects that fill our cups, whether it be a podcast series or something else that you may be interested in, and just run with it.
Laura: I agree with you, Joanna. I think it’s really important to have interests outside of medicine or even interests that you can tie into your clinical practice, so that they can give you a purpose. I am currently working with a mentor who has mentioned a few times that her decision to add public health work to her clinical work has helped her a lot in preventing burnout.
Dr.Georgakas: Yeah, and I think it reminds you, too, of why you’re doing what you’re doing and kind of gives you energy. The fact of being a physician is every single day. I’m in psychiatry right now, so sometimes I’m meeting people who are not doing as well, or a lot of times on their worst day ever– just being able to give them my hundred percent is really important. I think that they deserve that. In order to do that, I really have to have these things on the side that fill me up so I can kind of give them the care that they deserve.
Laura: Were there any standout stories or interviews that deeply resonated with you?
Dr.Georgakas: Yeah, I feel like they all stuck with me, in a different way for different reasons, and left a really great message. I think it was probably telling that I was gonna become a psychiatrist due to how much I loved interviewing folks and really learning about what kind of kept them ticking. I feel like the really special one for me had to be with my personal mentor, Dr. McAteer. That was just like a really full circle. We had been working on getting this podcast up off the ground, like off the ground and running for like over a year at that point, and imagining what it would be like when to launch it, how to reach out to folks, how to network. So I would just say probably with her, but really, each of them was pretty special to me.
Meghan: We’re super grateful to have a little full circle moment with you now, kind of being our mentor, getting things up and running, and now interviewing you, is super exciting. Thanks for being here again.
Dr.Georgakas: I’m so proud of both of you, and it’s so incredible what you’re doing with this work. I am very proud of the work that you’ve done, and I know how hard it can be and how much work you have put into this to make this happen. Even bigger scale than what I had imagined for this, like now this is officially with the AMWA logo on it. Hopefully, we’ll reach a broader audience.
Meghan: Yes, we’re very excited for it. During your time with the podcast, were there any moments you felt discouraged or kind of questioned the work, if it was making an impact? If so, like how did you push through those moments?
Dr.Georgakas: I was doing a lot of my recording during my third year of medical school. It was actually right when the pandemic hit. So it was like an interesting time to be promoting this, where we were all a little bit more isolated and locked down. At that time, I was a one-person team, really. Then I had really great guidance from my mentor, but I was learning how to do the podcast recording, manage the logistics behind the podcasts, handle Interviews, and write the show notes. There was like research that went into it. I was hosting every episode and doing all the editing myself. It was a lot of work, especially while I was still doing my clinical clerkships and rotations. I feel like, more so, the editing part felt like, can I do this? Will I have time for this? Again, it was that feeling I got right after. Then I would record an episode with one of my interviewees, and then I would feel this inspiration. I was like, yes, this is why I’m doing it. So at times, it did feel like a lot. Then, at other times, I had these constant reminders of why I was doing the work.
Laura: I think we have so much to thank you for, Joanna, because you did the hard work and you started this podcast. It’s a lot easier for us to pick up where you left off than to start from scratch like you have to.
Dr.Georgakas: Well, I’m excited for you guys to make it even bigger and even better than I could have even possibly imagined.
Laura: That’s really what we’re hoping for. We want to reach as many women in medicine as we can so that they can be inspired through the stories of incredible women in medicine like you. Now, I wanted to ask you if you could see one major change in the medical field over the next decade regarding gender equity, what would it be?
Dr.Georgakas: I think I would hope for a lot of changes and a lot of positive movement. I’m in psychiatry, and I have one of my attending doctors who checks in with us and always asks what the secret to happiness is, as a question, kind of on your first day. His answer is realistic expectations, and trying to manage your expectations and what you set out for. So with that in mind, I guess my goal for women in medicine for the next decade, for now, is that my matriculation class was just at 50%. I think it’s way past that at this point, where there are a lot more women going into medicine. So I would just really like there to be more space for women in medicine. I would like to see more women in leadership roles and see women really empower one another. I think for the longest time, there was this messaging in these male-dominated fields. So I remember at the AMWA Conference, they were referencing how there was only one spot for a woman in a residency program, and everyone publicly knew this, but it wasn’t talked about. Otherwise, they were gonna fill the spots with all males, and that’s not the case anymore. That is a good thing. I think in the past, it fostered this competition between women. Then I think I would really like to see that edge kind of disappear, and really see women uplift one another, support each other, and help promote one another. I feel like that is how we make improvements. That’s how we all succeed, with each other and together, and empowering one another. So that’s my hope in the next decade is that we’ll have more seats at the table. We’ll be in more leadership roles, and we’ll be, you know, singing each other’s praises and promoting each other. You know, fostering more of a welcoming, collaborative community of women in medicine, rather than a competitive one.
Meghan: That’s awesome! To kind of go off of that, like little inspiration for people that are listening. If you had like one thing you wish you knew when you started this. Can you kind of share what you would want that to be?
Dr.Georgakas: Yeah, never think your ideas are small. If you have something that you’re thinking about, just do it, go for it. You’ll find people to support you, cheer you on, and join a national organization like AMWA. We’d love to have you. There are other national organizations based on what other interests you may have, whether it be something in the humanities or a particular subspecialty or specialty field. There are great mentors there as well. Talk to someone, go to a conference, chat with them about your ideas, and I’m sure you’ll find someone who’s just as excited about you and wants to see you succeed, too.
Laura: I agree. I think sometimes, maybe fear and self-doubt can creep in and prevent you from sharing your ideas, and I find your advice really valuable.
Dr.Georgakas: Imposter Syndrome is something that I think occurs at all levels of training. I’m imagining even as I one day become an attending, I’ll still feel it– it just will look different. I forget who said this, but I remember at our most recent AMWA Conference, there was this call to question when you are feeling like you’re having those imposter syndrome thoughts, to actually check the environment. It’s like, what in the environment needs to change that is making me feel this way? Because I’m great. I’ve made it here, I’ve worked so hard to be here, and I deserve to be here. Saying those words to yourself and looking around to kind of investigate what it is that’s making you feel that way.
Meghan: That’s great advice. That is a perspective I’ve absolutely never heard of, and I think that is super inspiring. I know this past weekend I was with Joanna at the AMWA conference, and I wanted to recruit people for this podcast. I was like, listen, I’m so nervous to go talk to these people, and within a half a second, she was like, let’s go. She walked the walk. She would right away just take me and talk to these people. That was really helpful. It kind of made it so that I would go talk to people on my own as well. So kind of some encouragement that if you’re the person with, um, lesser self-doubt and ready to just go grab somebody with you and kind of show ’em the strings and help them, with their confidence in doing these things.
Dr.Georgakas: Yeah, and you were crushing it. You’ve got so many names by the end of the conference. So that’s one thing that I think all of us can do in medicine. I had a mentor before me who would do that with me, and one day, I know, Megan, that you’re gonna have a medical student whom you meet at the conference, and you’ll do the same thing with her.
Laura: Mentorship is really important. Having someone by your side who’s walked the walk and talked the talk can make such an incredible difference. I’d like to thank you again, Joanna, for being with us today and for sharing your wisdom and everything you’ve learned throughout your journey in medicine.
Laura: That’s a wrap on this episode of Our Voices, Our Future. We hope today’s conversation has empowered you, challenged you, and reminded you of the power of raising your voice. The fight for equity doesn’t stop here. Join us in the movement. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and if you love this episode, share with someone who needs to hear it. Until next time, stay bold, stay vocal, and keep the conversation going. This is Our Voices, Our Future.
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About the Authors
Meghan Etsey, MS3
Meghan Etsey is a third year medical student from St. George’s University. She has a Bachelors of Arts in Biology and a Bachelors of Arts in Nutrition and Dietetics from Bluffton University in Bluffton, Ohio. She served as the President of the St. George’s University’s Women in Medicine chapter in St. George, Grenada where she expanded relationships with the community and worked towards educating women and helping the youth. She is also a member of the Gender Equity Task Force and Sex and Gender Health Collaborative Committees within the American Medical Women’s Association. When she is not pursuing medicine, you can find her with her friends and family on different road trips and adventures exploring the world.
Laura Uricoechea, MS4
Laura Uricoechea is a fourth-year medical student at the Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine. She is currently completing a Master of Public Health at Thomas Jefferson University between her third and fourth years of medical school. Laura is applying to OB/GYN residency and is passionate about women’s health, particularly reproductive healthcare. She is an active member of the Gender Equity Task Force within the American Medical Women’s Association. Outside of medicine, Laura enjoys spending time outdoors—she loves hiking, paddleboarding, swimming, and playing tennis.
Vashti Price, MS3
Vashti Price is a third-year medical student at St. George’s University. She holds a Bachelor of Science in Biology from the University of Louisiana at Lafayette, a Master’s in Biological Sciences from Alcorn State University, and a Master’s in Health Sciences from Meharry Medical College. With a strong passion for public health and health equity, Vashti has dedicated much of her time over the years to volunteering with underserved populations, including individuals experiencing homelessness and children in need. Her commitment to service continues through her involvement with the American Medical Women’s Association, where she serves on the Gender Equity Task Force and the Sex & Gender Health Collaborative Committees. Vashti is particularly interested in the intersection of medicine, public health, and community outreach. Outside of her academic and clinical pursuits, she enjoys spending time with friends and family, attending festivals, exploring new cities, and winding down with a good Netflix series.
Joanna Georgakas, MD (PGY4)
Dr. Joanna Georgakas is a chief resident in psychiatry at Brown University. Joanna has been a member of the Gender Equity Task Force since her first year of medical school. She helped found her medical school’s AMWA chapter and has continued to serve AMWA as a resident chair for the Gender Equity Task Force during her time in residency. Joanna is also involved with the American Association for Geriatic Psychiatry (AAGP) and will be starting her Geriatric Psychiatry Fellowship this upcoming year.