Our Voices, Our Future: S2E18 Doctor and Dreamer

Authors: Meenu Immaneni, Meghan Etsey, Vashti Price, Dr. Jamee Goldstein

“Our Voices, Our Future” is a podcast by the Gender Equity Task Force of the American Medical Women’s Association that explores the challenges, stories, and successes of those working to advance gender equity in medicine. Through candid conversations with changemakers, advocates, and leaders, each episode dives into issues like pay gaps, leadership disparities, and inclusive workplace culture. Tune in to be inspired, informed, and empowered to take action. Full episode listening links are available below the transcription.

Meenu: Welcome to Our Voices, Our Future, a podcast where we amplify the voices driving change in equity within medicine and beyond. Brought to you by the Gender Equity Task Force, a committee of the American Medical Women’s Association. We’re here to challenge norms, break barriers, and ignite conversations that matter.

I’m Meenu, and in each episode, we bring you candid conversations with leaders, change makers, and advocates, working to create a more inclusive and just world. No more silence, no more waiting. It’s time to get Our Voices, Our Future. Let’s get into it.

Today, we welcome Dr. Jamee Goldstein, a board-certified pediatrician, mentor, and passionate advocate for compassionate care. She’s a fellow and immediate past president of the American College of Osteopathic Pediatricians and a proud recipient of their Community Pediatrician of the Year Award. Beyond her medical expertise, she’s also a tap dance teacher and theater lover.

Today, we’ll explore how Dr. Goldstein’s passion for the arts has shaped her approach to medicine and patient care, while challenging traditional ideas about professionalism. We’ll dive into how creativity and emotional qualities often overlooked or discouraged in clinical settings can be powerful tools in women’s leadership and healing. Dr. Goldstein, welcome to the podcast. We’re so thrilled to have you.

Dr. Goldstein: Thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Meenu: To get started, let’s begin with your story.

You’re a well-respected pediatrician who has a lifelong passion for the arts. How did your journey with music and dance begin?

Dr. Goldstein: I was about two when my mom put me in my first dance class. I grew up dancing recreationally, since competitive dance wasn’t a thing back in the ’70s. As soon as I could play an instrument, I played the flute and sang. Music has always been a huge part of my life. I credit my mom for that; she was a dancer growing up, and there was always music in our house. My dad encouraged it and helped cover the costs. Music has always been part of who I am.

Meenu: I love that. Dance is also something I really connect to. I did it sparingly because we moved around as a child, but I love the parts of my life where it was present.

Not everyone immediately connects dance and music with medicine, but there’s a deeper relationship.

How have the arts shaped your approach to being a physician? Has it influenced how you approach patient care, teamwork, and communication?

Dr. Goldstein: Yes, to all of it. Let’s break that down. My approach is a little more unconventional because I’m more willing to show emotion than some of my counterparts. Tap taps it down in a dirty form of dance. There can be aggression, there are smiles, but you’re not necessarily storytelling the way you do with ballet and modern and contemporary jazz, which I truly appreciate. But I did grow up doing some of those forms of dance. So you learn to emote and share your feelings with your audience.

Traditionally, in medicine, you don’t share your emotions. We’re not taught to do that with our patients. In fact, we’re told, don’t share your stories. Don’t hug your patients. I remember distinctly going through medical school. There’s a wall. You can show compassion, but only to a point. That’s not me. I hug my patients. I kiss my patients. I sing to my patients. I cry with my patients. I share my life stories with them, things I’ve been through that are similar to what they’re going through. It doesn’t feel like I’m just a talking head. It’s, hey, Doctor Jamee’s been there. She can relate to this; her story should inspire or help me.

Teamwork through dance. Yes, you are dancing alone sometimes, but you also have to ensure that your timing and placement are correct on the stage when dancing in an ensemble. Others rely on you to make the correct move at the correct time and place and help share the story. That communication, which isn’t verbal, is something that I also think I bring to my team in subtle ways. I’m not sure. I know what I’m doing, but my staff can read me well.

I’m also really good about telling my staff, “Hey, you know, I’m having a bad day today. So if I growl at you,”- a lot of people don’t do that. They’re not willing to share themselves with people. So if I’m having a rough day and I say to my staff, ladies, gentlemen, although I don’t currently have any men working for me, “I’m having a tough day. If I growl at you, I’m sorry,” you know, or “I’m super excited. This is going on in my life. I’m buzzing”, you know. So if I’m a little over the top today, expect it.

Communication helps because my team doesn’t walk on eggshells around me. They know what to expect. They also know that of the docs in my group, I’m the one they come to when they’re having issues. If they’re having family problems, work problems, or just life problems, the staff will often come to me and ask, “Can I talk to you?” Just to get a hug and vent, let it out, or do whatever they need.

So I think I’ve learned communication, not always verbal communication, through my participation in dance and music. That’s how it’s carried over; it’s made me more emotionally available to the people I work with.

Meenu: I love that. I feel like it’s the soft skills of being in a people-facing career where we constantly interact with people.

Dr. Goldstein: Absolutely. It’s not something we’re taught in medical school. I feel like it is discouraged, and that you must be this professional. You wear a white coat, you wear nice dress clothes.

Meenu: Yeah, it’s hard to create the distance between the patient and yourself when approaching it. I can definitely see that.

Have there been any moments when the creative spirit showed up in the clinic?

Dr. Goldstein: Oh, absolutely.

Meenu: Can you share a story?

Dr. Goldstein: Absolutely. I have written spoofs about constipation, strep throat, and allergies. It started when I was in med school. To Les Misérables, One Day More, I wrote “One Test More”. I wrote “I Will Survive Anatomy” to Gloria Gaynor’s I Will Survive. Some children are heard in our local grocery store singing my constipation song to Hallelujah.

Meenu: I love that.

Dr. Goldstein: It also helps me bond with the patients. Not so much with the boys who aren’t dancing, but if they’re musicians, you know, “Oh, what do you play?” I remember doing this. I was in a marching band, whatever.

With the kids who dance, you know, “oh, show me what you’re doing”. Recital’s coming up. “What song are you dancing to? Show me a little bit of the dance.” Then I’ll show them a little something, or we’ll talk about theater and Broadway, because I love musicals.

So for all my theater kids out there, that, you know, we’ll talk about “Oh, what did you see? What are you doing? What parts do you have? Oh, you’re the stage crew. Do you like to do the painting, the building, the lights?”

It really helps to bond with your patient, especially if they’re a new patient or they’re a patient who has anxiety. If you start with that before you delve into it, all right, so why are you seeing me today?

Meenu: It’s just an ascension.

Dr. Goldstein: Exactly, or after you’ve done the, why are you seeing me today? After you’ve done the exam, leave them, have them leave your office feeling good about that interaction because you had something more personal than, “Oh, you were here for strep and let me give you a Moxacillin.”

Meenu: Yeah. Lovely. My next question is:

Are there any stories that helped a patient, where you built a connection or helped them ease their anxiety through a performance or movement? I think you shared a little bit. If you want to share another story.

Dr. Goldstein: I can’t think of one off the top of my head because it’s 21 years of practice. There’s a lot. I’ve had many, but I’ve definitely bonded with the kids because I get invited to birthday parties, bar mitzvahs, sweet 16s, quinceañeras, and weddings. To be able to share the joy in their life, that’s fantastic. It’s an honor and a treat.

I do think that because I am more emotional with my patients, I think that has created that bond that has allowed that to happen. It’s an honor to watch children grow up, be part of their lives, have their parents respect what you say, and help guide them in raising their children.

So to be invited to a private family, things like that, it’s more than just listening to their chest and saying, “Oh, you have pneumonia”, or taking care of asthma. We have an emotional connection.

Meenu: Yeah. I love that you get to see that and be part of it.

Dr. Goldstein: Oh, absolutely. I encourage all of you, whether or not you’re into music and theater, if a little kid invites you to their school play, and you can go, go. It’s going to put a huge smile on your face. It means a lot to the kids. You’re like a superstar who showed up, and they may be really shy and quiet. That happens often, like if I get invited somewhere and I go, and then they see me. It means so much to your patients and their families that you care for more than just their physical being.

Meenu: They’ll remember, I think. I feel like kids remember. Like the next time they show up in your office, they’re like, “you were there, you came to my play”..

Dr. Goldstein: Oh, absolutely, which makes the next visit less scary because they know they’re coming to see a friend.

Meenu: Yeah, I love that.

Has there ever been a moment in your career where embracing that creative side of you has made you a better doctor?

Dr. Goldstein: I think all the time. Honestly, I really think all the time. Because I’m also the goofy, silly one, right? Kids hear me singing throughout the office because I’m theatrical and into music. I’m singing all day long, including pop songs and Broadway songs. My partners can’t stand it; it’s too bad. My voice is not always the best, and I make fun of myself for it. But I think they hear joy.

There are days you are not joyful. There are days you don’t want to be at work. But singing, sashaying through the hallways, coming into the room with some line from some new Broadway show that all the kids are familiar with – anything goofy and silly breaks down those barriers. If you’re having a bad day, it makes you feel better for a few minutes. It makes your interaction with your patient better. Ultimately, that’s what I want. I want to interact better with my patients so they trust me and feel heard.

I also think that the theater and music community is such an open community that it accepts people of all backgrounds, all genders, all sexual preferences, and all cultures. I think I’m also a very safe space for kids. I’ve had quite a few kids who’ve come out to me when they haven’t told their parents or they haven’t told their friends, but privately they will come out to me because I’m a safe space, I’m an ally.

That makes me feel really good, too, that they see me as someone safe because they know I’m part of theater and music, and I’m accepting, I’m a safe person.

Meenu: You’ve built that rapport over the years and shown them that you are that safe space, which is wonderful.

Dr. Goldstein: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely, and I love to tease them, which isn’t part of music and theater, but once we have that bond, you can tease your patients and not so much the little ones; they don’t get sarcasm, but the teenagers love it.

Meenu: They thrive on sarcasm.

Dr. Goldstein: Yes, they absolutely do.

Meenu: I think that’s what I also like about Peds; they change so much with age.

Dr. Goldstein: I mean, it’s so much fun. I have memories of doing Ring Around the Rosie in my waiting room with three-year-olds who are now 18 years old, and they’re going off to college.

I’m like, wait a second. You were just the three-year-old I did Ring Around the Rosie with. How are you going to college? They remember that stuff, and so do I.

Meenu: Yeah, I love that. So my next question is:

How do you personally define professionalism today? How has that kind of thing evolved over the years throughout your career?

Dr. Goldstein: So when I was a student and a resident, I was very straight-laced when I was in with patients.

Meenu: I cannot see that.

Dr. Goldstein: Oh, believe it or not. I was afraid. I was afraid to be myself because it wasn’t what I was surrounded by. You’re in the hospital setting. It’s a very serious setting. You have sick children. You have very sick children. You have parents who are afraid. You have parents who are demanding. You have parents who feel the world owes them everything or don’t know how to ask for things.

Back in the day, there were attendings who liked the tie and white coat very much. I did my residency. One of the hospitals I did my residency at had a very large religious Jewish population. Because of that culture, I had to abide by certain things. So I wasn’t singing and dancing with my little Hasidic boys. Now I do. Because I now work in a diverse community, again, with religious Jewish folks. I know which families one can do that with. I can sing some songs in Yiddish and get giggled at, which helps break that barrier.

Over the last 21 years, I have become more goofy and silly and more like myself when it comes to singing and dancing in the office, bringing that aspect to my practice, and being more emotional and emotionally available to my patients over the last 21 years. It’s taken a long time. Those first 5, 10 years out, I still dressed professionally every day. Thank you for COVID. Now I get to go in scrubs. Thankfully, we never wore white coats in my office. In the beginning, when I was trying to build my reputation and have people trust me, I had to act like all the other doctors in my practice. Then I started to have people request me, which felt really good, and I could let my guard down a little.

Now, every kid hears the strep song when they have strep. At some point, I walk into the room after their test result, and I’m singing, “You’ve got strep, you’ve got strep, to the pharmacy, you’ll strep.” They love it. I prefer who I am practicing now, as I was when I started practicing 21 years ago. I think I’m a better doctor because of experience and learning to make connections.

My pediatrician, I adored my pediatrician when I was growing up. He was a little silly and goofy. You know, he would just take a sheet of plastic, small, thin, that would have the room that you were in. He’d bang you on the head with it or lift you and hang you on the wall. You know, talk to me about mystery books, because I loved reading mysteries as a kid. He was my mentor. He was the reason I went into pediatrics. I got to work with him for the first 10 years of my life. He would play music occasionally in the office, and I’d hear him sing every so often.

Then I came on the scene. I started to become comfortable, and so that aspect grew. He would hear me singing all the time, all the time. I love who I am as a practicing pediatrician now. Like, I think I’ve found my groove.

Meenu: My follow-up question to that would be:

What advice do you have for people starting right now who are struggling or don’t know how much of themselves to show up for, like, for them to show up professionally?

Dr. Goldstein: It’s a fine line to tread. You don’t want to be too goofy and silly or too different when you’re first trying to establish yourself as a physician because you need to get the respect of the parents. I think if I had walked into rooms my first two, three years singing “You’ve Got Strep” or “Constipation, Constipation, can’t go poopy in the potty”. I think parents would have complained because it wasn’t what they were used to.

So I think you need to find ways to show yourself. You need to find ways to be emotional and emotionally available with them, but without being over the top in those first few years. Then, once you’ve gained the trust of your colleagues, that you’re a good diagnostician, that you are excellent at treatment, that you know what you’re doing, and once the parents trust you, or your families, if you’re not going into pediatrics, once the families trust you, then you can let your guard down a little more.

It does take time because, in the beginning, you do have to prove yourself. So sing in between your patients, not to your patients, but in between your patients.

Meenu: Find ways to get the creativity in.

Dr. Goldstein: Exactly. Tap dance at the desk while doing your notes, and then go in and keep your feet still. Always ask about hugs. I think you could do that from the beginning.

If you’re having an emotional visit with a patient, and you feel like normally I would hug this person, ask them, “Would it be okay if I hugged you?” I do that now. Even the kids I’ve known their entire lives, I don’t just hug them. “Hey, can I give you a hug? Would that be okay?”

That’s a good way to start. I think that’s a really good way to start because you’re showing emotion, you’re showing you care. It’s a physical way to build that bond without being creepy. If they say no, you have to respect that, right? We all learn no means no. But I never get a kid who tells me no. They all are like, yeah, please, please.

Meenu: Yeah, I could use a hug today.

Dr. Goldstein: Yeah, absolutely. So I think that’s a good way to get started. Then you can bring yourself into it more as people learn to trust you.

I also think, so I remember learning in medical school that something along the lines of, “the nicer you are to your patients, the less likely you are to get sued” or the “more honest you are with your patients, the less likely you are to be sued.” I think the more you bond with your patients, the more they trust you.

There have been times in the last 21 years, even recently, where I’ve told a parent, “You know, I really don’t know, I need to reach out to someone, can I get back to you?” Because they know I care, and because they know I’m serious about the medicine aspect, they will say, “Yeah, please, please share my story, or my child’s story with whoever you need to share it with, so that you can help me find an answer.”

So I think that aspect, too, of being emotionally available for them helps create that bond where they trust me to know that I’m really looking out for their child’s best interest. And that if I need to phone a friend, they know I’m not going to blow it off. I’m really going to do it. Depending on the other person’s schedule, it may take me a few days to get back to you, but this is beyond my ability, and I’m not afraid to say that.

I think that’s something else that everybody needs to know, which isn’t really theater stuff, but you need to know what’s beyond your ability, admit it to your patients, and then refer them to the proper places or get them the answers they need. So, sorry, that was a little side note.

Meenu: No, I love that. It’s advocating for your patients, what they need, and getting them the help they need.

My next question is about mentorship and how you support young women or diverse students, like gender diverse students who feel pressure to hide themselves or parts of themselves, maybe creatively, emotionally, to be seen more as professionals. Have you ever faced any of the same pressure? I think you talked a bit about it. How did you feel and navigate it at the moment? When you felt like you had to censor yourself, kind of, and be a little bit more fitting into someone else’s mold.

Dr. Goldstein: It’s hard to fit into someone else’s mold. I can’t imagine having to hide my true self. I’ve been very fortunate in the majority of my education, in that I have gone to places where Jewish people and women are respected.

Grad school was a little tough. I did grad school before med school. I went to grad school at a Catholic university. They accused me of making up a holiday so I could host an event in a bar. And I was like, “No, call the rabbi. This is the rabbi’s, you know, rabbi’s thing, not mine.” That was a little disconcerting.

Then, my medical school wasn’t religious, but they prayed to Jesus before many things. That made me very uncomfortable. They scheduled tests on Jewish high holy days, and I had to go and fight not to take my test. And because I was, you know, there’s a range of religiosity in Jews. I was one of the least religious.

There were people in my class who were Orthodox. They would say, “I need two days off for Rosh Hashanah,” and I would say, “Well, I only need the first day.” Then the school would say, “Well, why do you need different?” That was really hard to navigate and to remain professional and advocate for myself and my needs, especially because, back 25, 30 years ago, that wasn’t something; people weren’t, there was a lot less advocating for yourself. You know, women had done it, and Black folks had done it. LGBTQ was just starting, I feel like, to become more mainstream. They were advocating for themselves.

So, it’s hard, and even though the struggles I had were minimal compared to what I think people go through now, I try to remember that when I’m working with people who are feeling alienated or sidelined. I try to find resources or refer them to people who can help them.

So, while I’m an ally, I don’t know all the great resources for people in the LGBTQ community. So, I will ask my friends who are part of the community, “Where can I send this student? Where can I send this patient?” I try to keep a running list, either on my computer or on a paper document, of resources for people so that the next time I come across that situation, I can say, “Oh, here, wait, you need to talk to these people”.

I think that’s how I try to help students and patients who are struggling. At least trying to be an ally, trying to understand where they’re coming from, even though I can’t exactly be in their shoes, and then trying to help them find resources to help themselves. Of course, encourage them to be the best they can be as themselves in the situation, you know. It’s not hard to hide who you are. So I try. That’s all I can do.

Meenu: Yeah. I feel like being able to show up and be in that space is, I think, a great way to be and support.

Any words of encouragement, advice for someone feeling that way, or where they may feel like they have to be less of themselves in a space?

Dr. Goldstein: I hope it’s temporary for you, that whatever the situation is where you can’t be your true, authentic self is just a moment in time and not a permanent situation. If it looks like it will be a permanent situation, it’s not a place for you, and you need to find another option.

So, for students who are considering residency or for residents who are considering fellowship, or for anyone who’s considering going out and working in the real world as an attending, if the culture is going to stifle you, it’s not the place for you to be, and you need to find an alternative. Again, try to work who you authentically are into your practice. It’s going to take you a few years. You can’t initially come out and just throw your flag high, but when you gain their trust and they know that you are good at what you do, and you know what you’re doing, it’s easier to let that part out of you.

So you’ve got to find a place that will accept that kind of culture. Look around. Who else is working there? Are there other people like you? Or if there aren’t people like you, are the people you’re working with at least supportive? Of the patients that are coming in, who are like you? Now, if you’re hiding your sexuality from people, what are your colleagues like? How do they respond to the other people of that sexuality? Are they scared of them? Are they making fun of them? That’s not where you want to be.

If you’re a woman and you are in a very masculine world, and they’re not talking nicely about women, or they aren’t respecting you, get out of there. You don’t belong there. You don’t have to put up with the abuse. You should be able to be who you are. Get yourself where you will be most appreciated and most loved.

Meenu: Yeah, and trust your instincts. I feel like that, and our instincts tell us a lot in a space when we are. Trust that and find people to support you in taking that next step. Yes. Thank you for that. I think that’s really good for someone to hear who might be in a situation they need to get out of.

Dr. Goldstein: Yeah. You have to have the courage, which takes a lot of courage. That’s from someone I’ve been at the same practice for 21 years. That’s unheard of in medicine. My practice is very unusual in that we all grew up together. We grew up in our practice. So the older doctors in our group raised the younger doctors. Being in the same practice and not moving around is very unusual. So if you’re in a situation and are unhappy, have the courage to move. Find a better situation where you can be you, sing and dance, and bring your trumpet in and play. A local doctor in our area brings his dog to work. I love that. I love that. Whatever makes you you, find the practice where you can do that.

Meenu:

My next question is about burnout and how that’s been a growing issue in health care, especially for women and caregivers. Do you find that staying connected to the heart helps you recharge?

Dr. Goldstein: It helps me recharge. It’s my alter ego, is what I call it. Unfortunately, my dance studio closed a few years ago due to COVID and other issues. So I have channeled myself into being the head drama mama, which is what I call myself. My boys are into theater. So I’m in charge of the drama boosters. I’m part of the high school right now, although I was not the head recently. The woman who was the head, her child graduated. So now it’s my turn. But I’ve been doing drama mama work for years. I’ve been part of our music boosters at our schools.

That keeps me involved in the arts and it brings me so much joy watching the kids perform, helping them, getting them whatever it is they need so they can have a fabulous performance, be it a music stand or $4,000 puppets to put on Little Shop of Horrors or hiring the truck that ships in the costumes, whatever it is to help kids enjoy performing and to watch them perform. And to go and see even the little ones, even the elementary school junior shows. How are you going to do that? It brings me so much joy and happiness, and I leave and my cheeks hurt from smiling. So that’s a really good rejuvenator for me.

Then going to see shows by myself. So I’m very fortunate. I live near West Point Military Academy, and they have a theater. So they bring in traveling Broadway shows, an hour from Broadway. So when I can, I see a show—concerts, not big ones. I mean, I’m not paying hundreds of dollars to see, but it’s just local. I just went to a symphony or pop concert yesterday and left with a smile. All that reinvigorates me. I’ll come in to work Monday, and I’ll be singing whatever it is I heard this weekend. Now that helps.

Burnout’s real, and there are times in the last 21 years when I have absolutely felt it. And there are some days I still feel it when I’m looking at a schedule. I have 40 patients to see, and I’m like, “Oh, the day will never end,” or a day where I’m getting particularly difficult cases, not necessarily medically, but emotionally, or dealing with people with complicated family issues or frustration with the medical system and insurance companies. That can really wear you down a lot.

So music is my rescue. I will get in the car and listen to music or start singing. Or one of my staff starts saying or singing something, and I’ll pick up, which is an instant mood changer. Because burnout’s real, so you’ve got to find what it is that rejuvenates you – be it art and painting, drawing or sculpture, sound bathing, or what do they call it? Nature bathing. When you go out for hikes, you’re just in the middle of the woods, listening to the wind.

Meenu: I have not heard that term, but I love it.

Dr. Goldstein: I believe it’s called nature bathing. If it’s not, then I just coined a phrase.

Meenu: Got to copyright it.

Dr. Goldstein: Yeah, absolutely. You have to find whatever it is that makes you happy. Even if you only get a few minutes in the day, let it heal your soul.

Meenu: But it might make you smile for a little while.

Dr. Goldstein: Exactly.

Meenu:

What advice do you have for physicians or students trying to make space for their passions?

Dr. Goldstein: You just got to. You’ve got to. You’ve got to find the space. You don’t have a choice. You still need to be you. You are not, I am not, Doctor Jamee, and Doctor comes before Jamee. I mean, yeah, that’s what people call me, but Doctor is not how I identify myself. I identify as Jamee, and Jamee loves music, theater, and reading. I happen to be a physician.

I think there needs to be a change in how doctors view themselves. At least the generations before me, I think many of them had a God complex, and they were put up on pedestals by the population, which, I mean, we work our asses off to get where we are, and we definitely deserve respect. The scientific community does not deserve what is happening, and the undermining is ongoing. You need to be more than just a doctor. You need to remember who you were before you went to medical school and be that person. If it means that you go and take a class or hike after work, then that’s what you need to do. You need to carve that time out.

It’s certainly easier to do when you don’t have a family. When I first started practicing, I think I got engaged in my first year and married my second. I had my child in my fifth or sixth year. So I taught dance three days a week in those first few years. My husband didn’t care. I came home happy. And that’s what he was happy about, that I was happy. Then, as I started to have children, I had to cut back. My babies needed me, and they took precedence.

But still, there was a dance studio by us that does drop-in adult classes. I drop in and take a class, or I’d be like, you know what? There’s a show coming to town. I’m getting us tickets. You must remember that you are you before you are a physician and make the time to be you. That will help you with your burnout. And it’s going to help you be a better physician.

Meenu: Yeah, I love that. My next question is about leadership qualities.

What leadership qualities do you think women bring to medicine that are often overlooked or undervalued?

Dr. Goldstein: We are excellent at multitasking.

Meenu: I agree.

Dr. Goldstein: We are fabulous at multitasking. I don’t know that it’s necessarily undervalued. I just don’t think we talk about it. The fact that, you know, we need to be balancing in our head multiple patients and what’s going on because you’re seeing more than one patient, well, depending on your field, you may be seeing more than one patient at a time, or you may be, you know, dealing with a patient but then, when you leave that room, you have to make a phone call about someone else or write something for someone else. We’re excellent multitaskers, and you must remember that about yourself. You’ve got to be careful not to spread yourself too thin.

You must learn not to take every task on yourself and assign some of it to the people around you. You have support staff; let them help support you.

I think we’re very good with our emotional IQs. I think they call it EQ, right? Emotional Quotient or something like that. I think that is very undervalued. Again, it comes down to being able to hug your patients, laugh with them, and cry with them. Women are more emotionally in touch, and that’s a therapeutic part of medicine. It’s not always about prescribing a drug or prescribing a test. Sometimes it’s just about being a good listener, giving a hug when appropriate, handing over a tissue, or letting them see you cry with them. It is okay to let them see you cry. I think that’s undervalued and that women are exceptional at that.

Meenu: I like those qualities. I agree with you, especially on the emotional question of being able to be there, supporting that, and empathizing with what someone might be going through.

Dr. Goldstein: Absolutely.

Meenu:

What changes would you like to see in medical education to better support women and marginalized physicians in bringing their full identities, including creativity and emotion, into their practice?

Dr. Goldstein: I would like us to have more time with our patients, depending on what field you go into. Some fields have the luxury of an hour with a patient. In some fields, you have seven minutes, depending on how busy your practice is. If you’re given more time, it gives you more ability to share yourself with your patient. You know, it’s a political thing, and I hate that.

So many people are so afraid to be who they are because they’re worried about being fired, or they’re worried about being put on probation, or yeah, I mean, those are the two big things, right? I wish the world were a safe place for everybody, that women could be women and not have to show their emotional side. Men have emotional sides. I wish they could do it too. I wish the stereotype of a man needing not to show emotion were gone. I wish for my LGBTQ+ friends that it wasn’t such a struggle. I don’t care who you love or who you think you are inside. If you’re happy and loved and respected, that’s what I wish for them. I wish they didn’t have to hide that to be considered professional or respected.

It doesn’t matter to me if you love someone of the same sex, a different sex, or everybody. That tells me nothing about your intelligence and ability to diagnose and treat a patient. I wish we could just let all that go and let people be who they are and only judge them based on their ability as a physician. My goofiness, my love of theater and art, my being Jewish, and my being an LGBTQ+ ally have nothing to do with my ability to diagnose and treat. I wish future generations didn’t have to hide or mold themselves to what is seen as professional. So that they could be taken seriously, that’s deep. That was a deep question.

Meenu: Yeah. I feel like there’s a lot. I feel like we are going in the right direction, especially in medical education, where we want to focus on wellness and treat the residents and physicians as people, because they are human at the end of it. So I think we’re moving in the right direction, but there is still much to do.

Dr. Goldstein: Unfortunately, I think it depends on where in the country you are. I agree. Because in meeting with students, I’ve heard horror stories about some schools where they’re not as progressive. I feel that the students who are there have to hide themselves so they can get an education. They’re so desperate to become a physician that they’re willing to hide that part of themselves, conforming to get that education, because ultimately, they want to be a doctor. I hope for those people, and I hope if they’re listening, that when you find your residency and you go out into practice, you find somewhere where you, as a person, are accepted for who you are, and that you don’t have to continue to hide yourself.

Meenu: I hope that too. I wanted to end on a lighter note. So I have a fun question for you.

For fun, what’s one song performance that always lifts your spirit, and something that reminds you of who you are?

Dr. Goldstein: You mean one of my made-up songs?

Meenu: We can do both.

Dr. Goldstein: I have the Doctor Jamee hit list, which is so funny because people say, “You need to go on YouTube with that.” I’m like, “yeah, but I’m pirating songs, and I’m sure I’ll get sued by artists. And I’m still paying off student loans, so I can’t afford to pay them now.” Anything Broadway, anything 80s.

Meenu: What’s your favorite Broadway show?

Dr. Goldstein: Oh, Les Misérables is my favorite Broadway show, but I adore Wicked, I adore Hamilton. What else have we seen? I just saw Death Becomes Her. It’s hysterical and campy and so good. The costumes, there’s a reason they won a Tony. I highly recommend going to see it.

Yeah, no, pretty much anything Broadway, but Les Misérables is my go-to. The songs are so powerful, right? You’ve got these really sad songs like, oh, I wish I could remember the name, but Friends at the Tables, where, you know, they’re all dying, going off to war. Then there’s One Day More, which is so empowering. “One more test, one more test, and then this semester’s done.” Well, I’m sorry that I changed their lyrics. Yeah, Les Misérables is my go-to, but Hamilton’s empowering too, being able to rap that for us. Are you kidding? Knowing all those lyrics? I’m so proud of myself.

Meenu: I think it was my hype music when I was studying organic chemistry. I would just have the playlist on repeat as I am doing.

Dr. Goldstein: You’ve got to, and Shocked. Oh my gosh. If you haven’t seen Shocked and it’s coming to an area near you, you have got to see Shocked. It’s hysterically funny. There is a song that Alex Newell sang, Independently Owned, which is called. It’s an empowerment song specifically for women. The fact that a transgender female sang it made it even more moving.

You have to crank Independently Owned and power yourself up, ladies, because it is, and that’s a good one. That’s a good empowering song.

Meenu: Lovely. I wish I could listen to it right after this.

Dr. Goldstein: Yeah, you’ve got to. That’s a really good empowering song.

Meenu: Okay. Good. Alrighty.

So that’s a wrap on this episode of Our Voices Our Future. We hope today’s conversation with Dr. Jamee Goldstein reminded you that being a doctor isn’t just about science; it’s about soul. Whether through dance, music, mentorship, or medicine, bringing your whole self to the work is one of the most powerful ways to heal others and yourself.

In a world that often tells us to compartmentalize or conform, stories like Dr. Goldstein’s remind us that creativity and compassion aren’t distractions from medicine; they’re at the heart of it. So wherever you are in your journey, student, resident, practicing physician, or advocate, know this: your voice, your story, and your full self are not only welcome; they are needed.

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About the Authors

Lakshmi Meenakshi Immaneni, MS3

Meenu Immaneni is a third-year medical student at the Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine. She has a Bachelor of Science in Public Health with a focus in Nutrition from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Passionate about patient advocacy and advancing equity in healthcare, Meenu is a dedicated member of the American Medical Women’s Association, where she serves on the Gender Equity Task Force. She is particularly interested in promoting mentorship, and championing women’s leadership in medicine. When she is not studying, Meenu enjoys spending time with her husband and their cat, playing board games, reading, and traveling to explore new places.

Meghan Etsey, MS4

Meghan Etsey is a fourth year medical student from St. George’s University. She has a Bachelors of Arts in Biology and a Bachelors of Arts in Nutrition and Dietetics from Bluffton University in Bluffton, Ohio. She served as the President of the St. George’s University’s Women in Medicine chapter in St. George, Grenada where she expanded relationships with the community and worked towards educating women and helping the youth. She is also a member of the Gender Equity Task Force and Sex and Gender Health Collaborative Committees within the American Medical Women’s Association. When she is not pursuing medicine, you can find her with her friends and family on different road trips and adventures exploring the world.

Vashti Price, MS, MHS,  MS3

Vashti Price is a third-year medical student at St. George’s University. She holds a Bachelor of Science in Biology from the University of Louisiana at Lafayette, a Master’s in Biological Sciences from Alcorn State University, and a Master’s in Health Sciences from Meharry Medical College. With a strong passion for public health and health equity, Vashti has dedicated much of her time to volunteering with underserved populations, including individuals experiencing homelessness and children in need. Her commitment to service continues through her involvement with the American Medical Women’s Association, where she serves on the Gender Equity Task Force and the Sex & Gender Health Collaborative Committees. Vashti is particularly interested in the intersection of medicine, public health, and community outreach. Outside her academic and clinical pursuits, she enjoys spending time with friends and family, attending festivals, exploring new cities, and winding down with a good Netflix series.

Formatting, publication management, and editorial support for the AMWA GETF Blog by Vaishnavi J. Patel, DO